Leaving NPN

[Richard_Wong]

Sorry to see you go Jerry. I originally joined NPN around 2004 or 2005 and was active for about 5 years. I met some of my best photographer friends thru NPN. Jim E. invited me back a few years ago but I didn’t feel compelled to log in much since NPN had become somewhat of a ghost town. Once David brought new life into NPN I came back because I could see the desire for a nature photo focused community that wasn’t Facebook or Instagram. The site is more active now than it has been in a decade, and it actually works on a phone which was one of my biggest issues with the old site. Now I check NPN at least once a day as a result just to see whats going on.

We all stick around for differing reasons. Sorry that NPN isn’t meeting your needs.

[Jerry_Austin]

After rereading all the comments, mine included, and doing a bit of soul searching, I have decided to give the new NPN another chance. While I didn’t mention the good things about the new NPN, those things do exist. I concentrated on the things I didn’t like. I’m going to take Keith’s advice and try to celebrate what is right with the site while still advocating, respectfully, for improvements. I appreciate all the members who commented and I appreciate David for trying to address my concerns.

[Hank_Pennington]

Well done! Here’s hoping it works out for you. I haven’t found another place on the web like it.

[Shirley_Freeman]

I for one, am glad to hear that, Jerry, and I feel confident that there are many others that feel the same. Looking forward to seeing your photos as well as your critiques and comments. I hope it works out for you. Like Hank said, I haven’t found another place on the web like it.

[Lon_Overacker]

That’s great news Jerry! I’ll need to pop in to Avian and Wildlife more often because your images are outstanding!

Please let us know if there’s anything we can help with or answer.

Lon

[David_Kingham]

I’m very glad to hear that Jerry, the offer stands to help you in any way I can and I’m open to hearing any feedback you have to improve the layout/functionality of the site.

Here’s some advice that might help.

Whenever I’m talking about the ‘Home’ page I’m referring to the community home page, the actual home page is more like a landing page for those new to the site and trying to sell them on the benefits of being a member.

When you’re on the home page you are presented with all the categories, as Lon said, it’s the ‘hub’, or ‘command central’ where you can get to anything quickly.

If you’re interested in seeing all the latest activity on NPN from all categories, just click on Latest. This is sorted by the latest reply. If you want to see all the new posts since your last visit, click ‘New’, or if you want to catch up on new replies to topics you’re following click ‘Unread’, and ‘My Posts’ will show you all the topics you have replied to or created.

If you are only interested in the image critiques category, just click on the heading for image critiques first, then you will still have the buttons for Latest/New/Unread/etc. but they will only apply to this category, so if you just want to see all the new images posted in critiques you first go to that category, then click ‘New’. The same applies if you are only interested in Avian, just go to the avian category and click new, you will only see new images posted to the avian category.

Right now there is no way to see just your posts, but it’s something I’m working on and hope can be implemented relatively soon.

[David_Kingham]

I’m very glad to hear that Jerry, the offer stands to help you in any way I can and I’m open to hearing any feedback you have to improve the layout/functionality of the site.

Here’s some advice that might help.

Whenever I’m talking about the ‘Home’ page I’m referring to the community home page, the actual home page is more like a landing page for those new to the site and trying to sell them on the benefits of being a member.

When you’re on the home page you are presented with all the categories, as Lon said, it’s the ‘portal’, or ‘command central’ where you can get to anything quickly.

If you’re interested in seeing all the latest activity on NPN from all categories, just click on Latest. This is sorted by the latest reply. If you want to see all the new posts since your last visit, click ‘New’, or if you want to catch up on new replies to topics you’re following click ‘Unread’, and ‘My Posts’ will show you all the topics you have replied to or created.

If you are only interested in the image critiques category, just click on the heading for image critiques first, then you will still have the buttons for Latest/New/Unread/etc. but they will only apply to this category, so if you just want to see all the new images posted in critiques you first go to that category, then click ‘New’. The same applies if you are only interested in Avian, just go to the avian category and click new, you will only see new images posted to the avian category.

If you’re visiting/posting regularly I think the best ‘workflow’ is to first visit Unread to catch up on any topics you have created or replied to, then visit New to see what new topics have been created and reply to any you find interesting. You can skip past any photos you don’t want to comment or look at by clicking Dismiss New when you’re in the New view, or click Dismiss when you’re in the Unread view.

If you’re not visiting regularly, then it’s probably best to go to the category you’re interested in which will give you a thumbnail view that is sorted by the date the original topic was created.

Hopefully this helps, please reach out if you have questions.

[beautythief (Greg Rodgers)]

@David_Kingham

…ough the clutter, but it does require some knowledge of the tools first.I’ll be the first to admit that the site is not perfect, but as Shirley said I am continuing to evolve it. If you have any specific feedback about what you don’t like or are having trouble with I would love to hear this and either find ways to fix it or help you and others learn the best practices to make your experience better.

David, I as you know, I am a trial member and I can understand Jerry’s plight - I feel it myself. For example, I had somehow navigated to a page which had a list of members. I cannot find how to get there and have tried for a couple of days. I gave up. This is the most complex and bizantine maze I have ever been on. I do really appreciate the value of what is here, but it is too difficult to navigate. IMNSHO it needs a real overhaul from an expert in creating navigable sites. Needed to express this and this post gave me the opportunity to say it to the one who matters. Please head this.

[David_Kingham]

Thanks for the feedback Greg. It has certainly been challenging to make NPN easy to navigate, I ruminate about it almost every day trying to come up with ideas to improve it. There are so many aspects to NPN between the different styles of nature photography and all the different learning avenues we try to provide, it’s hard to find a balance between providing exceptional value and simplifying at the same time.

I’m really a one-man show who did this as a passion project to bring back something I believe in to provide something of value to the community. I don’t have the backing of a multi-national corporation to fund endless design iterations. I’m just a guy who has just enough knowledge to make open-source software work for our needs. I’m always finding ways to improve NPN design-wise, I know it’s not perfect and is a constant work in progress. I hope you can overlook the flaws and realize what’s really important here is the community and the value it provides. The design, while not perfect is the best I can come up with at the moment. If you or anyone else has feedback on how to improve it I am always open to ideas. Someday I fully intend to hire professionals to help with the design, but that’s just not a reality right now.

The user page you’re looking for can be found by going to the hamburger menu, clicking users, which will first take to a map of where the users are from, from there you can click on the Active Users button to see a list of the most active users.

[beautythief (Greg Rodgers)]

David, thank you for your compassionate and informative response to my complaint. I recognize I do not have the standing of a full member and certainly not that of a long-standing member like Jerry. I have only created one website in my life and that was out of desperation when I had a trial of Adobe products including PS and Dreamweaver in 2012 which would last just 30 days - I had to process thousands of photos and create a website to post them to. Believe it or not, I did it, albeit in a very crute result. It no longer exists - I only let a few people see it - not something I was proud of, but a necessity for a short time. What I learned was that a website is a hierarchical tree of pages hyperlinked together. The key is to make that tree logical and as simple and intuitive to the user as possible. Not all brains are the same - and with experience, certain pathways get known and replayed with ease. It is the length and pain of the learning curve which determines the dedication or not of the learner to proceed. IMNSHO, I think the learning curve could be shortened significantly and the associated pain reduced for new users to the NPN site. I don’t know your personal experience in creating websites, but I think if you think of it as a tree and ask yourself the question “What would an exploring or seeking user do at each selection point on the tree?” you stand a good chance of making valued improvements in the utility of the tree that is the NPN site. Unfortunately experience in use can blind one to the plight of the new user. And that can make it difficult to attract new users to overcome the mountain or maze that stands between them and the value that lies past the maze/beyond the mountain. I certainly recognize that your heart is in the right place as a person and photographer. If you are looking for suggestions, I will suggest one more thing. I have been on flickr for 10 years. I do like it and when I first joined there was a nice feeling of commeradeship which made it more than just posting photos, but a place to share stories. Somehow, some of that got lost when Yahoo took over. IMNSHO, when SmugMug took over they set a course to recover the value to the photogs. One thing that has alway put me off, is “badges” or “awards”. The self-appointed arbiters of these “prizes” have no business in my opinion on a website for sharing images and stories where people are sharing instruction and professional information. I always has struck me as very amateurish and without redeeming photographic value. If you want as I learn more about NPN I will share more of my NSHOs. Best always, Greg

[beautythief (Greg Rodgers)]

@David_Kingham

…n how to improve it I am always open to ideas. Someday I fully intend to hire professionals to help with the design, but that’s just not a reality right now.The user page you’re looking for can be found by going to the hamburger menu, clicking users, which will first take to a map of where the users are from, from there you can click on the Active Users button to see a list of the most active users.

David, I just tried your path to get to the “active users” page. That is not the page I referred to. The “active users” page is a combination of images of the active users, short bio, recent history on the site, etc . . . The page I referred to was not “active users” but a much longer list of just member names without much other information if any as I recall. Perhaps a contact also - don’t recall. But it was a MUCH longer list than the “active users” list. So, still, the direction to the list I originally had found is not clear. QED.