Well, you thought I was done with Point Reyes… yeah for the ICM’s anyway. Now I’m getting down to some of the images that I’m just not sure about posting. Going through this process, I was reminded of what Donna wrote a week or so back in her “Fall Delight” post:
“I’m a bit nervous now to post another image. Wondering how to come up with something that won’t be a let down. Guess that’s a photographer’s life - win some, lose some.”
Donna, don’t mean to put you on the spot, but you touched on something that I think many might be thinking about. I know I have. We all can’t post (nor capture) epic, EP-winning shots every week, it’s pretty silly to think we could hit the high bar all the time. So, maybe sometimes we feel like most our other images just don’t reach a certain level or standard (of our own doing or perception…)
This image makes me think of all that. Ok, I’m being e a little self-critical and self-degrading, but this image is rather “pedestrian”. And of course maybe I’ve become known for making images from things that just about everyone else would just walk on by. (And there’s a reason we walk on by!)
So now I start asking myself. Why the hell did I even take this picture? What is it that compelled me to photograph this scene? And I’ll tell ya, I don’t know. I mean there must be some value… why would one spend a significant amount of time processing, masking for colors, saturation, cloning teeny details? Certainly not my best image or effort. But still something, just enough, to want to share and get feedback…
Specific Feedback Requested
So…having said that. What’s your feedback? And anything I wrote is game for comment, feedback. Well, and the image itself of course. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!
Technical Details
Nikon D800E, 24-300mm @32mm, f/22 2s iso 100.
Single frame. Interesting, I did do a 3-image capture for focus stacking, but have yet to process it…
Hey man! Your post reminds me of some thing that I’ve read just yesterday that said, photographers are terrified that their photos won’t be seen and photographers are terrified that their photos will be seen. I think that rings true for a lot of us even the ones who do it for a living. so take hard in that. I like the scene to, but I think it’s because of the similar colors shapes and lines that occur. If you figure out which of those features you’d like, you can pair them together and exclude everything else that’s not those. Then your composition become so much more simplified and direct to what drew you to the scene.
Lon, what immediately caught my attention was the green / yellow colors here. The reason is I’ve had a bit of a forced migration away from Velvia 50 to using the latest Ektachrome E-100 as it were…
It has this very same look under certain conditions. If you looked back on my last posted image it has the similar grass look. My reason for a windy comment is when I first started using the E-100 I thought of Fuji Astia. It always had that green /yellow look. Different from the Velvia red / magenta and Provia blue / cyan look. And of course then NPNer Preston Birdwell as Astia was his favorite film…
Anyway, I like the photo as presented and no changes to offer up from my perspective…
Oh this reminds me of a blog post I wrote last year that may have had its origins on NPN under a similar circumstance as this post. I can put a link to it if you want, but the upshot is that some photos sing only to me and that’s ok. Part of every human endeavor is failure, or at least failure to live up to a sometimes arbitrary standard. Does every photo have to be epic to have value? Not to me if it helps me see the world better, discover an unknown corner of nature, hone part of my craft; things like that. Even if the photo is an outright flop, it teaches us. We learn what is our best work and how to achieve it. We learn that as we improve, what was once our best work becomes merely good (as it should be). We learn how to become more fulfilled in our craft when we realize what is truly important to us. And so what if only you like this picture? I don’t like my work only when others do. That would be pretty sad. So stop and shoot what strikes you and only you, it’s what sets us apart and makes our individual contributions valuable to the whole.
What an interesting post, Lon. The image too! I love what’s already been said and I think I may have read that same article or heard the same podcast as @David_Johnston is referring to. It may have even been an NPN post. I can’t remember anything anymore. I frequently post images that I’m unsure about because I want the feedback on how others feel about it and how to make it better. I think it was a couple years ago that we were asked to post our favorite images of the year and all ten of mine were images that I had never posted on the site. And Ed, who is no longer active here, asked my why I didn’t post any of these and I said because I am more concerned with getting feedback on images that I am uncertain of and also I just didn’t have time back then. So, every image posted doesn’t need to be epic. Maybe you just want to know if the image is worth keeping or if there are ways to make it better and you just can’t see how. It’s funny, most images I’m not even sure why I take them. This was the topic of an article about a month ago here on NPN. Why do you take the images that you take. What attracts you to the scene. Almost nobody knew why they took the image other than they felt something. Maybe you felt something about this image, you processed it, and now looking back you’re thinking what did I see in this. For me, it ebbs and flows.
As for the image, for me it’s the grasses that are sweeping over the scene. That’s what it was in most of your other similar scenes from this trip. I also like the yellow flowers in the upper middle of the image. I think the one thing that maybe hurts this image a little tiny bit is I feel like the top is cut off. I know, that’s likely where this scene ended and obstructions came into play but that top I feel needs more breathing room. Otherwise, I really like this image, Lon.
Lon, if every image we posted were epic and loved by everyone we wouldn’t need the critique categories. Just post to showcase and everyone can go “Wow, thanks for sharing.”
Sometimes we don’t know or can’t articulate what it was that drew us to the scene and to take the shot. Afterwards, sometimes we keep 'em, sometimes we toss 'em…
Posting for critique gives us the chance to hear/see what others think. They can validate our impressions, or see something we haven’t…or tell us that the image isn’t all we think it might be. Either way, all those responses are valuable to our growth.
Ok, to critique your image: I see a solid organization and pattern that takes this from a chaotic nature view to a sense of nature’s order. My eye keeps exploring the larger image, that makes it a winner in my book.
Lon, this image really sings when it’s viewed large. Once I clicked on the image to enlarge it, I instantly got pulled in and actually spent quite a lot of time studying the details and just plain enjoying it. Thanks for sharing this - it made my morning just that little bit more enjoyable.
I like threads like this. It’s always nice to know I’m not the only one. I ask myself this question for a large percentage of my photos. I really like the responses above. It does make me think I should post more photos where I question the value. My self doubts get in the way far too often.
I’m certainly a huge fan of quieter work and scenes such as this, but it also needs to be well-executed and show me something about the photographer.
For improvement on this image, the lower part of the frame has out of focus grass that really just distracts in general so you could crop it. I also find the scene to be really left heavy with the large green bush upper left and nothing really to counter it on the right, so my eyes keep going there and not much else except the yellow flowers. I think with a bit more careful arrangement of the elements you have here (yellow flowers, purple plants, green grasses), it could really sing.
lon , it took some time to read all the comments (opinions)your image caused.
At first I couldn’t believe it was yours.
After reading your intro I concluded I still didn’t find it good. But I loved your meaning with it in which you more than succeeded . Thank you so much. Maybe we all should sometimes bring in images that we think really need critiques.
I’m just going to focus my comments on the image itself. I think it needs a bit more contrast or raising the white point itself a bit or both. Many of your images lack a strong black and are just a tad on the flat side. I think this is one of those. I do agree with David that there are (were) compositions within this area that could have been more concise and integrated. I do agree with the approach of shooting from the gut foremost and everything else is secondary. If you felt a strong draw to this scene then that’s of primary importance.
Thank you all so much for the comments, suggestions and especially the dialogue. I want to respond to all and will try, try to keep in concise (yeah, right.)
Interesting quote David - kind of a Catch-22 - “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” maybe I’m afraid of posting my really bad stuff - and I have lots!, but in general I enjoy showing my work. It’s an ego thing ya know. Oh, and also thanks for the suggestion about simplifying. I’m posting a re-work and crop when I’m done writing. Hopefully it’s simpler now.
Thanks for the comment Paul! Hope you’re well. Yeah, struggling with the overall WB and colors; there’s some varying hues throughout. I actually want the sand to be warmer, but not all the greens and yellows. Too much time on this one already!
Kris, thank you so much. You said a lot of great and profound things. Of course I’m 100% comfortable in my own photography skin. And you’re absolutely correct that it only matters if the photographer is happy with their images.
And this is how it should be and gets to Kris’s point about improving. I know for sure I learned many, many things here over the years; and for sure have been inspired and grown because of the influence of so many here.
To be honest, I also post images that I’m quite proud of and just want to share with the world. It’s a small place when really this is the ONLY avenue I use for sharing my work. No IG, No FB, nada… I suppose I should post in Showcase as well - but most certainly, I might think an image is one of the best I’ve ever captured - but no doubt, there will always be someone that doesn’t connect, or can offer constructive feedback.
And to your suggestion, I’ve cropped the top and hopefully simplified.
100% David! thank you.
Thank you Tom - makes my day in return!
Thank you Steve - I hesitate thinking maybe this is something for a discussion forum, but I have certainly enjoyed the responses and interaction.
While I can’t always explain “why” I was inspired to capture a scene, I do know that if I’m in the right “zone”, mindset or whatever, I somehow just “See” things. I can’t explain it.
Matt, thank you so much for your straight forward critique. I’ve considered these comments greatly and hope the rework is an improvement. Although for sure, there are still some grass stalks coming up thru the bottom; just wasn’t too inclined to clone them away. Intersting too, but I should check the 3-images for a focus stack. thanks for the comments!
Thanks for your honesty Ben! I don’t think anyone expects there images will be liked by all! Hey, and maybe it’s a good thing that you didn’t recognize it as mine! Maybe I’m expanding and growing!
Thanks Igor . Good points on the processing. I raised the white point and contrast a bit. Still not sure on the colors/WB in general. Oh, and to your point - I’ve been struggling with this. I bought a new monitor this last summer. I didn’t check prior, but apparently this monitor does not have an individual contrast adjustment. And so I’m not feeling confident on my calibrations now (Sypder Pro4). So perhaps I’m not seeing or developing the images with enough contrast. I’m going to have ponder this. So I appreciate the honest feedback.
Thank you folks! I didn’t want to come across so much as cutting myself down or seeking validation. But certainly the question “why” do we do this and “what” inspired us to photograph will always be an open ended question. At least for me.
Lon, the gentle quietness of the original definitely caught my eye as the kind of image that a person can look at over and over while finding new elements each time. (In my mind, that’s what makes a wall hanger.) I did feel like it was left heavy because the grasses attracted much of the attention. The crop and extra brightness in the upper right of the redo fix the “left heavy” feeling very well. It remains a delightful scene that is what we most often see as we explore the natural world in the depth that it deserves.
Lon, I want to begin by commenting on what you said because, boy, does that resonate with me. When I start comparing my images to an ideal, either the images of others or my own, it shuts me down. I lose connection with my self, with the world, with my confidence and wonder, as you said of yourself, “Why did I even take this image?” Even though we know better, it is so easy to imagine that the “great” photographers pushed the shutter button once and only once for each of their iconic images. We know the notion is nonsense, we have actual evidence that it is pure fantasy and yet we put ourselves through. Who knows why. Doubt is human. One of my mentors, David duChemin, always says, “You’ve got to go through “bad” to get to “good”.” And so, while I happen to like the first version of this image, based on others that you’ve posted from this shoot, it seems to me like a “sketch” - finding your way to the real core of what it is that is drawing your attention. And let’s face it, sometimes our sketch images take us where we hope to go and sometimes they’re just sketch images that we can look at and learn from. For that reason, I think that it is very important for us as artists not to dismiss these sketch images. For me, that’s why it is so valuable to look at contact sheets to really register how a Weston or a Cartier-Bresson got to “the moment”. I mean, Dylan writes a song in fifteen minutes, Leonard Cohen takes eight months - it’s a process and its the process that really matters. It’s the process that ultimately nourishes, not the product. So, I just want you to know that I appreciate your posting this and being vulnerable about your process. That’s what community is all about.
Hi Lon,
What a great post! I read this when it was new and had to wait until I had a real computer to reply.
“So now I start asking myself. Why the hell did I even take this picture? What is it that compelled me to photograph this scene? And I’ll tell ya, I don’t know.”
So, I can answer this a couple of ways, any one of which might make you think, like Charlie Brown asking Lucy, “That’s it!”
You might have taken this picture because you hadn’t snapped the shutter for a few minutes or an hour, and you got an itchy index finger. I’m not being facetious, nor am I confirming your suspicions that the image has no value. It might really be that you wanted to snap and see what happens later. Never miss an opportunity; that’s a viable answer.
You saw the radial patterns and thought, there’s something interesting here. And I think there is. And this, combined with “never miss and opportunity,” led you to grab it and play for hours on the computer to see what’s there and if it’s worth anything.
You’ve been doing so much ICM and abstraction that you are jonesin for some detail and macro, and this has potential for that, but you didn’t get close enough to really make it fly. There is a transition from and to various approaches, and we have to relearn some field skills for each. I’ve been there.
You got a sense of an interesting kind of “aerial” abstract, but you didn’t get over it at a right angle to achieve an aerial effect. That’s a possibility too. I look at this and think it would make a really interesting abstract if it were not shot from a diagonal but shot straight down from maybe something like 3-4 feet.
Given all of those possibilities, is there something worth working on here with this frame? I’m not sure. I would play with lots of crops. For me, the grasses in the upper left don’t work with the radial patterns in the other plans, and not all of those plants are as interesting. The grasses in the mid-left are interesting, the plants in the mid right are interesting, but they are not interesting together–at least not to me.
So, feedback for me is this:
A) Isolate something (or find a way to create 3 different 1x1 crops from this) and see if a crop makes it more interesting, more abstract.
B) Look at other frames: Did you take one looking straight down? Play with it.
So glad you posted this image and this set of questions. We have all been there. We’ll all be there again. This is all good food for thought.
I like the photo. Its the kind of scene most would walk away from, and for that reason it deserves to be photographed and shared. It reminds me of the James Thurber quote - " Beautiful things don’t ask for attention", and because of that make them even more beautiful. And sometimes, placing the camera between you and the scene in some way corrupts the beauty. So even though we might not capture stunning images with each exposure, what drove you in the first place had to be something beautiful that grabbed your attention even though it did not ask for it, and perhaps because you noticed it, it hid itself from the camera when the shutter was tripped. We walk away thinking we got something beautiful, to only look upon it later and wonder why we took it? Too metaphysical a notion? Maybe?
I love what’s already been said and I think I may have read that same article or heard the same podcast as 