Hi NPN, I am Sarah Marino, ask me anything!

Hi Matt – thank you for the great question. Yes, this is one of the hardest parts of being a small business owner. I started working as a part-time nature photographer in 2014. Through 2020, I made most of my income through a different business (management consulting and executive coaching with nonprofit organizations and foundations). So, I came into my photography business with a lot of business skills and experience (running my own business for almost ten years, coaching other people on how to be more effective in their roles, knowing how to develop a strong business plan, etc). All this is to say that I started my photography business with more resources than most. I was able to try a lot of things that were not financially viable to see what worked the best and what I enjoyed the most. By doing this part-time without a lot of pressure, I was able to experiment and adapt a lot, which I think was essential to building longer-term success.

With more experience, I think the most important decision I have made is to be more focused. I have spent a lot of time figuring out what I enjoy the most and where I want to see my business go in the future. I say no to anything that does not advance those goals.

One of the most influential nonprofit management books from the last decade is the Nonprofit Strategy Revolution by David LaPiana. I used a lot of his ideas in my consulting business and one has stuck with me through to my current endeavors. One of the tools he provided in his book is called a strategy screen. Essentially, you develop your big goals, and then use a list of questions to help screen all of your opportunities to make sure you are making decisions that are in alignment with your goals. Instead of creating detailed 3-5 year business plans, you develop some high-level goals and then make decisions that keep you oriented in the right direction while being adaptable and able to respond to emerging/unexpected ideas. I wrote more about this approach for a networking group and you can find a PDF of that casual article here.

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Awesome response, Sarah. Thank you!

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Hi Judy – Thanks for the question! NPN has been so helpful for me both personally and professionally. I posted my first (horrible) photo for critique on NPN and the feedback I received helped me see things that I could not see on my own. It was so intimidating at the time but I still remember the person who gave me very kind and helpful feedback (Varina Patel). Reading through other people’s feedback on all sorts of nature photographs made me a better photographer and I learned how others taught photography through NPN’s forums. Another thing I distinctly remember from my early years on NPN involved observing how other people talked about their photography with so much more depth than I could muster myself. This eventually encouraged me to try to understand my own motivations and practices with greater depth, which I think has been very important in developing my ability to write about and teach photography. It took a lot of effort to start putting nebulous and sometimes very personal concepts into writing, and the impetus to do so started with NPN. Some of Guy Tal’s writings from years ago were especially influential, for example. All of these things help get me on the path to making this a viable full-time career.

On the personal side, I have met some wonderful, long-term friends through NPN. Like most other professions, building a network is essential. When I think back on the connections I made through NPN over the years, those photographers are some of the people who have been most helpful in developing a business and reputation. The community here is supportive, collegial, and encouraging, which I think is essential for developing long-term, meaningful connections.

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Great question, Matt. First, I do not want to be seen as only a “woman nature photographer” but I know from a range of situations that women have a distinct experience in this field, so I think the topic is worth discussing. And while misogyny and paternalism are not necessarily pervasive, many women encounter enough gender-specific negative experiences to discourage them from engaging more deeply in this field.

I also know that, as I referenced in my response to Cody above, that my gender has been an advantage in some cases. I think it is important to discuss both the opportunities and challenges in any honest conversation about this topic. (I hadn’t heard of the competition example you cite. Wow! I am interested in learning more about it. While I do not know enough to comment directly on the situation, it is fascinating that this has happened with regard to a woman winning an award when so many competition results are utterly confounding yet the winning men would never be accused of the same thing. For comparison, I was involved in one major competition where the winner was very close friends with one of the final round judges, who did not recuse himself and most definitely recognized the photos during the judging process, and that situation was just quietly seen as how things work in the field.)

As you mentioned, I am married to a nature photographer. (I also used to work in a woman-dominated field, so I have that point of stark comparison, too.) Ron is opinionated and direct. When he was on Facebook, he posted all sorts of things that offended other photographers. And, based on my observations and comments other people have made in response, this approach to public communication bolstered his reputation among many of our peers. To my knowledge, Ron has never received comments about his appearance or his voice. He has never received an email from colleagues saying, essentially, “you should tone down your opinions to protect your reputation.” I have never seen his expertise or competence be questioned. He has never been on the receiving end of sexual harassment or unwanted advances from a photography colleague.

My experience has been different. I have received a slew of nasty messages, especially about my (free!) webinars and YouTube videos, including how it sounds like I am growling when I speak and that I am painfully boring (direct quotes). While I have not received direct comments about my appearance, female friends have (and in some cases, it has been abusive harassment). When I am teaching (online, in person, and at photo clubs), I regularly have my competence questioned, had people assume I am some sort of assistant, or been on the receiving end of the most basic (unsolicited) technical advice. I have direct experience with a company saying essentially “we would have women ambassadors if they were good enough photographers.” I have seen how competitions sometimes discourage women from entering in the first place and then institute judging processes that minimize the value of the type of photographs that are seen as “too feminine” (whether or not they are taken by women or men). And, I know that gender-based harassment can take place in spaces that should be safe and welcoming, like small-group workshops.

And, finally, I think the hardest part of being a woman in this field is always feeling like an outsider. Until the last few years, I was almost always the only woman in a group of men whenever I was gathered with other photographers. While nearly all of these men as individuals have been welcoming and friendly to me, I have never felt like I am part of the group. Being a perpetual outsider has worn me down in a lot of ways.

All these single incidents, built up over time, can lead to feeling invisible and unwelcome. I am sure some men have similar experiences, so I don’t think these dynamics, online especially, are exclusive to women. Women just seem to consistently experience these dynamics and I know that some of these factors have kept some of my very talented colleagues from achieving their full potential. For example, why do so few women use YouTube as a means of communication? For a lot of the reasons above, and cutting off that channel of communication means missing out on all sorts of opportunities. I have a lot more to say on this very complex topic but will leave it here for now.

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Sarah,
You work is very inspiring and I enjoy your thoughtful images. Thank you for taking time for this AMA. I’ve become a bit un-motivated (in a slump) with my landscape photography in the last couple of years. In part due to covid restrictions but also only having a single car for our family and not able to go to locations that are inspiring to me. I’ve been getting out most weekend mornings but mostly at the same locations. To change things up I started more wildlife and bird photography which has helped a bit. What do you when you are in a slump and photographing very familiar locations.

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Thank you for participating in one of these sessions, Sarah. I am in the Badlands between shooting sessions so here’s my question -

You identify strongly as a nature photographer, as we all do here, so I wonder if learning about nature through your photography figures into either your plans for work or your enjoyment of it? Over the years I’ve amassed a largeish collection of nature ID books and field guides so I can find out what I’ve taken pictures of and understand the specifics about how a subject I’ve shot fits into the larger ecosystem. Curiosity drives me to projects like doing a river study or macro photographs of lichens. Sometimes it becomes an obsession. Does anything like that have a place in your work or drive you to new subjects?

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Hi Bryan – Thank you for the kind words about my photography! I responded above to Matt Reynolds about how I try to take an expansive approach to photography. This is the first part of my answer to your question. Mindset is a big part of it. Specifically, I try to look for opportunities rather than limitations. Over the last five years or so, I have also worked on improving my observational skills so I can see a landscape more deeply. These two things help me see opportunities in almost any place I visit. Since you said you are limited to visiting the same places over and over again, you could consider trying some different approaches to connecting with the landscape in new ways. For example, instead of visiting in the morning, try visiting in the evening since the different light might transform the place (I know this might not be possible all the time with your car situation but maybe sometimes). Spend some time just looking at the plants, trees, grasses, or whatever is growing in the area to possibly notice some subjects you have not previously photographed. Look for the tiniest details that could be interesting with a macro lens. If you haven’t experimented with shallow depth of field before or other techniques, give them a try. Experiment with total abstractions, like working with the wind or multiple exposures. Consider working on a specific project, like a portfolio of a subject that particularly interests you. Having a focus through a project can provide motivation to get out and the initiative to work on seeing a familiar subject in new ways.

Of all these ideas, the one that is most motivating for me is working on a project or around a theme. Thinking about the area where I live, I would consider creating portfolios of the following things, with a broad range of interpretations of each of these subjects: the bare trees in winter, textures in bark, spring buds, water ripples and patterns, lichen patterns on rocks, various interpretations of native grasses and sage, ice at the edge of the local river, and photographing all the small wildflowers that emerge in spring. I would think of each of these as a portfolio of work and my motivation would be to create interesting bodies of work around each of these themes over the course of the year. At the end of the year, I would hope to put each of these small portfolios together into a body of work that would represent the location in a way that would be hopefully deeper than I imagined at the beginning of the project. With this approach, you could also try some new things (like the bird and wildlife photography that you mentioned, or new techniques, or working with other new-to-you subjects) that could provide new avenues for inspiration and keep your photography skills sharp for when you are able to visit some places that might inspire you more.

Finally, it is natural to go through ebbs and flows. As a colleague kindly reminded me when I was expressing frustration about my own highs and lows with photography, enjoying the process of rejuvenation can also be quite helpful sometimes. Being inspired all the time is unrealistic so just try to enjoy the process of being outside as enough sometimes.

Hi Sarah, thank you for this AMA session. I recently started collecting books and prints from photographers that inspire me. I heard that you have an incredible collection of photo books and prints. When did you start the collection and what are your favorites in your collection? Love your wonderful images! Thanks!

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Hi Sarah! Thank you for participating in this AMA session, and the above conversations have been wonderful!
Where is one location that you have not yet visited, but really would like to spend time wandering and photographing in the future?

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Hello Sarah,

First let me join the others in thanking you for participating in the AMA. Your work is quite inspiring, especially the intimate scenes, which is where I think my preferences are going at this stage in my photography life.

You’ve successfully made a career out of a passion—photography. I had, at one time, thought to do the same, but knowing I couldn’t quit my day job, I chose to take on numerous wedding photography sessions to build up a portfolio. Perhaps that was not the right choice since I prefer nature photography, but I found that the business side of it just tainted me on photography in general. I was seriously worried that my passion for the craft would die dealing with the business side. Eventually, I chose to end that career and my passion came back.

These days, I am retired and have no desire to do anything that would even look like a photography business. I am so happy just doing this for my own personal pleasure.

So, to my question: how do you balance the business side of photography with the personal, passionate side? How do you keep your personal inspiration?

Thanks again for participating here.

Cheers,
David

Hi Sarah!

I admire you and your work!

My question was kind of already asked, about being in a slump. I’ve been in a slump for several months, not inspired to get out and make my images. I think life responsibilities got in my way emotionally. I’m just starting to get out the door and into the field once again.

My question is if you ever had a slump and did it scare you like it scared me! I started to wonder if my photography life was over!

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what software do you work with for editing? im working on Nature Photography as well

thanks gill vanderlip

Hi Sarah,
I have a fun question for you… :slight_smile:
If you had a single return ticket on a time machine to go on a photography trip, would you go into the past to see and photograph things how they were, or into the future to see how things will be?

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Hi Sarah. Thanks for taking the time for the AMA. I saw you speak at the last Moab Symposium and have been enjoying your work ever since. I’d like to hear more about your process in book making. Who is your publisher, what software are you using, and how do you curate your thoughts, ideas and images?

Hi Tom – It is nice to see your name here! That is a tough question. I think I would choose the ticket back to the past if I could bring the knowledge I have now with me. We live in SW Colorado and long-term, persistent drought has changed this landscape a lot in the last 20 to 30 years. I often think about how I would like to see what some of my favorite places looked like before the pine beetle infestations and when the climate was more consistently wet. Like what did the wildflowers look like in a particular basin 50 years ago? Also, it would be a huge privilege to visit some places in the American Southwest before they became well-known or to visit Iceland when it was still off-the-beaten path, which time travel to the past would allow. While I think there still is a chance to avert the worst impacts of climate change, the realist in me fears that a trip into the future would be a mostly sad experience of grieving for places that have been transformed by a warmer, drier, and more erratic climate in largely negative ways.

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Thanks so much for the question, Wade! So far, I have only self-published ebooks. So, I do not have a publisher other than myself. I am in the very beginning stages of creating two printed book projects and will likely publish those myself, as well (or work with a print broker like Jerry Greer of Mountain Trail Press). While working with a publisher would likely result in a larger distribution of a final book, I want more control than I would likely have through that kind of relationship. Also, with ebooks, self-publishing is a profitable business model since after the PDF is finished, the project is almost 100% profit. I know that I have made much more in terms of income through self-publishing than other photographers have made in working with a publisher because the author/photographer’s cut of each copy is so low. For now, the self-publishing route feels best based on these reasons.

Right now, I use Affinity Publisher to create PDFs, in conjunction with Lightroom and Photoshop for photo processing. Affinity Publisher is so affordable and offers everything I need, so I highly recommend it for anyone who is interested in creating their own PDF portfolios or ebooks.

In terms of curation, my projects come together pretty naturally around my interests. For the last few years, I have been focusing on a few specific landscapes (especially Zion National Park and Death Valley National Park), so those locations are a natural theme for future projects. When I am visiting these places, I try to expand my work into new places and deepen existing protfolios. I have also tightened up my body of work so, again, the themes emerge naturally on their own. For example, last year I published an ebook about my time in Yellowstone National Park, with a focus on small scenes and intimate landscapes. That project brought together a lot of time spent in a single place along with some themes emerging in my photography (collections of patterns, trees, and abstractions). As the very first step, I typically create collections starting with color and mood, and then curate from there by grouping things together by subject or some other common element. I could teach a whole class on this topic but hope this short answer provides a bit of insight into my processes.

Hi Gill – Thanks so much for the question! I use Lightroom as my catalog. I also use Lightroom for processing sketches to decide if I want to finish my processing in Photoshop. The Lightroom sketch includes adjusting the exposure, contrast (using highlights/whites/shadows/blacks sliders and the tone curve), saturation, color balance, etc. If I like the general direction of the photo, I take it into Photoshop to finish. I use really simple tools: levels, curves, saturation, color balance, selective color, clone stamp, spot healing tool, and occasionally a simple luminosity mask. These basic tools get me 95% of the way there on almost all my photos. Since my photographic practice is rooted in the experience I have outside, my processing methods are simple because that isn’t the part of the process that I enjoy the most.

I can vouch for the quality of your e-books Sarah. I bought your Yellowstone one awhile ago and it was beautifully done. Totally worth it. Recommended to all NPN.

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Hi Mark! It is good to hear from you here. I am no longer using Facebook so I have missed seeing your work over there. First, you are too talented for your photography life to be over so I hope you are working your way out of your slump. In a situation like this, I think you should first be kind to yourself. The last two-plus years have been really hard and it isn’t surprising that creativity has been hard to maintain for some of us.

I have never had what I would call a long-term creative slump. I do have really big ups and downs when it comes to photography. I pursue it very intensely when we are visiting a place and then I totally withdraw when we get home. It can be hard to get back into that intensity when arriving at a place, so that is generally when I experience my lowest points of wanting to create. On those days, I find that the hardest part is getting outside. After I am out, I almost always enjoy the photography, and if I am not totally feeling the photography, being outside is enough to make the next day easier. I have figured out that these swings are natural but I am trying to moderate them a bit, too (a little less intensity in the field, a little more consistency when we get home).

So, in addition to being kind to yourself and accepting a creative slump is natural, I think my advice would be to try to get out more regularly, even if it feels really hard to take those first steps. Just getting in the habit of being outside and working with your camera will hopefully bring a bit of the spark back. And, if you can, try to find a bit of extended time to work on your photography without the other life pressures knocking at the door (like a few days away at a relaxing place). That bit of a creative respite could give you the momentum to feel more excited about your photography when you can’t get out as much due to life responsibilities. I also try to place an emphasis on the process and not the result. Being outside and working with my camera is enough to feel like I am creating, even if the photos do not excite me when I get back home. I am sure you will find the spark again. I would just try to have some patience and lean into the experience instead of fighting it, as vigorously resisting and beating yourself up could make it worse.

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Thanks so much for the kind feedback, Richard. I really appreciate you sharing that you enjoyed my Yellowstone ebook.

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