POLL: What prevents you from critiquing others images?

[Jim_McGovern]

Great question and great conversation! Lots of excellent points made here.

I really appreciate the comments made about having a personal/emotional/aesthetic response to the image in addition to a technical/compositional/post-processing response. I would like to develop my own responses on the former in this regard. I enjoy the technical side and feel I have a better vocabulary for responding here, but struggle with the more emotional/aesthetic side.

I wonder if it would be helpful to increase the structure of the response/critique process that encourages comments made in these areas, as well as areas I’m not thinking of.

Also, I find that the prettier, more advanced images are more frequently commented upon whereas those images from photographers earlier in their learning may not get as much feedback. I’m certainly guilty of this and now I’m asking why. Sometimes, I’m just not sure where to start and where the photographer is in their learning process, but as I write these words, it sounds like a cop-out. I recognize this as my problem and not the posting photographers. I would like to improve in this way as well.

[Ben_van_der_Sande]

I am more than happy with the feedback I get on NPN.(learning so much). Because I am unsure about my own work, it is rather difficult to comment (give critique)on images from other members.
Still, I try sometimes !
I myself make images mostly on feeling and not so much by rules I don’t know about. But I am willing to learn and therefore is NPN a great place for me. Also for the personal comments and contacts I get.

[Ed_McGuirk]

@Jim_McGovern

Also, I find that the prettier, more advanced images are more frequently commented upon whereas those images from photographers earlier in their learning may not get as much feedback. I’m certainly guilty of this and now I’m asking why. Sometimes, I’m just not sure where to start and where the photographer is in their learning process, but as I write these words, it sounds like a cop-out. I recognize this as my problem and not the posting photographers. I would like to improve in this way as well.

Jim, you make some great points. I try to guess at the experience level of posters with whom, I’m not familiar with, and then try to tailor my comments accordingly. Sometimes I guess right and sometimes not, but when I guess wrong and assume someone is less experienced than they really are, it’s pretty rare that the poster takes offense (which is true of NPN in general).

I also find the more advanced photographers images tend to draw more comments on the aesthetics / artistic issues, which makes common sense, those folks need less technical help.

But whenever I comment on the images of less experienced shooters, I try not to fall into the trap of just discussing technical issues. I try to say something encouraging about the image first (noting what I like about it, which is usually more the aesthetics), before getting into suggestions on technical issues and improvements.

[Lon_Overacker]

Great discussion folks! And thanks to all who have responded and commented.

For starters, let me say that I’m one that currently is in the camp of life just getting in the way… super busy at the day job and life in general. Haven’t even had time for much photography, my last dedicated photo outing was last November! So I’ve been a bit absent myself. I get it - the #2 response.

Just a few extra comments on the other responses.

For those who don’t want to repeat comments/critiques that have already been given. I get that too. My response though, is your comment/opinion/suggestion may already have been posted, however your comment potentially adds confirmation, validation etc. to those comments for the original poster (OP). In other words, if one person suggested that the shadows are a bit too blue, and no one else chimes in that may agree, then the OP might discard that comment - But if 3, 4 or more people mention it… well, maybe it’s a valid comment or suggestion. So in the end, ALL comments are valid, even if repeated. Doesn’t mean you have to say the exact same thing, but confirmation can be helpful for the OP too.

#3. Not feeling qualified. Lot’s of great responses here as well. I just want to say that critiques don’t have to be detailed analysis from an “expert.” Every single one of us has opinions on what they like, don’t like and can comment. Anyone, regardless of their level of experience, can have an opinion on color, composition, etc., or just their emotional response, or lack of, to an image. Take a chance folks, offer your opinion - the OP will certainly appreciate it.

#5. Not posting, not critiquing. I’m quite guilty of this. I’ve operated this way on NPN for a long time. When I’m sharing my work, I’m very active. It may not be right or fair and I will try and set a better example. But to be completely honest, I don’t harbor very much guilt considering I’ve written more comments than anyone on NPN except for @Dennis_Plank I just do it in streaks. And when I do take time to comment, it’s usually pretty detailed and I take the time and effort to provide quality, constructive feedback. Which, now that I think about it… I have a hard time, dropping in to NPN for 5 minutes and just leaving a “great image” - empty critique. So when I do critique, it takes time. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

#6 intimidated. I think similar to the “don’t feel qualified” response. I would just say, we’re a community here. Many have mentioned this as well. We’re all here to help each other. Like-minded nature photographers who want to not only learn, but to mentor and teach as well. I totally understand the sentiment - but really, there’s no need to be intimidated, really. I don’t recall anyone who’s been mean or scolded someone for a comment they made. If there has been, and I can think of one case on NPN2.0, and that was addressed by the David and team. All anyone asks is behaving in a civil and courteous manner. I think we all do that pretty overwhelmingly. Jump in, the water’s fine!

My biggest ask to the community would be - if you post an image for critique, pay it forward and comment on some others. Personally I don’t care if it’s just one other, five or twenty… please help out another with a constructive comment, as they have done so for you.

So many great comments above, too many to address individually at this point. But thought I would call out @Kerry_Gordon 's comments early on. spot on, and thanks Kerry!

Thanks all for participating!

[Dennis_Plank]

I’ve been following the comments here after making a very small response early on and after reading @Lon_Overacker comment, it occurred to me that one element has been left unsaid or skirted around: It feels good to get comments! Even if those comments aren’t a glowing confirmation of one’s artistic vision and talent, it still feels good. It means people are responding to your work, people are acknowledging your existence in the community, and that is what makes it a community. There is no community without conversation, and while the act of posting itself is the opening of that conversation it doesn’t become one until the first person responds to that opening.

Lon mentioned that I’ve commented a lot. I do so because I’m selfish. I want others to comment on my work and the best way I know of to do that is to comment on theirs. Sometimes, particularly if I’m late to the conversation, my comment may be pretty trivial, but it’s just like a verbal conversation, not every comment has to be deep, but it’s polite to at least acknowledge the other person’s statement.

So I guess this was more about why I do comment rather than why I don’t, but there it is.

[Matt_Lancaster]

Thanks, Lon. I have always appreciated your generosity in commenting and constructive criticism, delivered with compassion, civility, and good humor.

I can attest that you have gone above and beyond to provide help to this community, especially volunteering to help me when I asked.

[Matt_Lancaster]

Critiques and comments on NPN have been the single greatest factor to my growth as a photographer since I joined a year and a half ago. I love the conversations that occur as a result of posting not only my images but descriptions of my creative processes from the capture or of my intent of the processing.

These days, I’m posting images from my yet-unpublished website as a way to refine my images before going public, and the process has been nothing short of inspirational. I’ve been particularly appreciative of @Ed_McGuirk’s and @Adhika_Lie’s perspectives and insights. They’ve opened my eyes to related ideas that have expanded my thinking about my own images and photography in general. Without NPN and the critiques forum, I would never have received such valuable contributions.

As for my own practice of commenting, I always strive for providing comments about what I like and what I would do differently. I never read other comments first because I want to speak from my own response, so my comments may not always be unique but serve to reinforce common interpretations. I am not shy about going against the grain because I believe strongly in my own voice and that personal vision is just as important as any other factor in photography or any other art. NPN provides a welcoming forum for that and I encourage everyone to speak their own truth.

[Jason_Hatfield]

The main reason I don’t often critique is two-fold. If the image is good and the photographer experienced my critique would just be nit-picking. The problem with that is without being there in the moment I don’t know the constraints they had in creating that image. My feedback would either be pushing them to do something not possible or create something closer to my vision.

The other reason is if the image is, just to put it bluntly, “bad”. Whether it’s a lack of an interesting subject, poor processing, etc, if I can’t find anything good to say I can’t leave false praise to sandwich my constructive feedback. There are others better suited to being delicate and I’m just more of a straightforward person. I know some people will take those kind of critiques harshly, occasionally then attempting to lash out my own images’ failings in return, so I find it easier to just say nothing. It’s different for me in an in-person setting but the time it takes to tip-toe around online is often too much of an investment.

Anyways, if anyone ever wants direct feedback from me just let me know. I’m more than happy to tell you the truth whether it’s good or bad!

[Stephen_Stanton]

Lots of good stuff and comments here. When I joined NPN a couple years ago, I was intimidated to provide any critique or comments whatsoever, because I had very little technical knowledge. But I wanted feedback on my own posted images. So I figured I’d try comments and a little critique. I soon realized that by engaging in other folks work and asking myself questions their images I was gaining good experience that I could use with my own photography. I try to logon once a week and supply two or three comments or critiques on subject matter that I usually try to shoot, seascapes, wilderness intimates or the like. I only post what I consider my better images and have not done too much lately because I have not been able to shoot much for the past couple months. But I totally enjoy posting comments about what I like or found interesting about the image.

[Steve_Kennedy]

Great thread and discussion! Several people stated my position - time is an issue, I feel a bit intimidated by the quality and value of other people’s expertise, I have a hard time seeing the value of my own view in comparison. But mostly I’ve been so inactive over the last few years it’s difficult to get back into commenting considering the above. Plus the majority of my photography recently has not been nature oriented, though nature photography is still my first love. I want to get back involved again but time goes by so quickly!

[GennyK]

For me it is definitely a time issue. I critique almost every time I am on NPN, IF I am on my tablet or laptop, but not on my phone. It just takes me too long on my phone, since I don’t like to just say, “Nice pic!” I am busy at other things and the last year has been even busier, for a variety of reasons.
That said, for me, it takes a LONG TIME for the thumbnails to load. Is that just me? I am on a satellite connection.
However, I must echo some others about what a critique can be: We talked about this many years ago on NPN, about what part of an image impacts people the most, technical aspect or emotional aspect? Hands down it’s the EMOTIONAL aspect that grabs people.
So, if you feel you’re not super technically qualified, no problem. How does the image impact you when you FIRST LOOK AT IT?

[Igor_Doncov]

Firstly I would like to say that I do leave a lot of critiques so none of the above choices apply in my case, yet I had to vote to see the results (and thus skew the results).

@Jim_McGovern

Also, I find that the prettier, more advanced images are more frequently commented upon whereas those images from photographers earlier in their learning may not get as much feedback. I’m certainly guilty of this and now I’m asking why

The problem I find is not whether a photographer is a beginner or advanced but how he or she perceives themselves to be. There are photographers who are not advanced but you’re not quite sure how they see themselves. You are likely to offend someone if you come on as knowledgable to someone who perceives themselves as being advanced but is not. Someone wrote that they just don’t know what to say when they see an obvious ‘bad’ image. The problem is telling them it’s bad without hurting their feelings and yet helping them move forward. In my opinion all photographers develop along similar pathways. Having gone through them yourself you can tell where the photographer is on the road to development. You can do so by remembering when you took pictures like that and what changed after that. Yet it’d difficult to convey that without seeming pompous. In short, I think that the less pretty pictures, the ones that can benefit the most from a critique, don’t receive a lot of suggestions because of a concern of stepping on someone’s toes. After all, NPN has added an entire category, the showcase category, for those who are gun shy about being critiqued.

Incidentally the old NPN had a multi page discussion just a few years ago on the same subject.

How do I manage to give a lot of critiques. By being brief and to the point. A long verbose critique is pleasant to receive but takes a lot of time to write leaving you less for others. The most common reason for lack of critiques seems to be the investment of time. I suggest that you manage your time by commenting on more images by just making your point and moving to the next one.

[GEGJr (George E Givens, Jr.)]

I originally responded privately. But I wanted to see results so I’m responding pubicly. I have been a lifetime member since NPN1. I rarely critique and post even less. I don’t critique (or post) because it seems to me critiques I read are about post processing and I am not good at post processing. When I have critiqued it’s typically about composition or cropping.

[michael_tomcal]

@Ed_McGuirk

…ple who don’t feel qualified to critique, then at least discuss what you like most about he image. Even as an experienced shooter, I’m sometimes surprised by what things people like the most about an image. I also leave critique comments that may be obvious to the person posting the image, but which may not be obvious and will still have value to less experienced members who will also read the post.

This helps unblock me a bit @Ed_McGuirk in regards to your point of providing emotion based feedback as being helpful from junior photographers not sure how to critique technically a more senior photographer’s image.

[chris18 (Chris Brown)]

A famous photographer used to say that the best way to learn how to evaluate your own work is to critique others work, and then apply that to your own.

[Egídio (Egídio Leitão)]

This is an old post, I know, but it speaks to me and my reasons for joining NPN. Just like @Marc_McCann , I’m also an amateur photo enthusiast. I have a hard time calling myself a photographer, truth be told. I like to play with my cameras and get good images in the process of doing that. While I may not have credibility or professional expertise, as some might say, I think every photo at some level can speak to a viewer. So, I try to express what I feel when I see a photo. I joined NPN precisely because I was tired of the social media hunt for likes and followers and no real feedback. I want to learn from others. I also want to share what I think works for me and what doesn’t work for me when I see a photo. If I offer a suggestion for more saturation or a different crop, for example, it is only my feeling about the photo and what I would have done differently.