Ocean Energy II

Image Critiques Landscape Critiques
1

REWORKED V2 - stonger detail and contrast in the clouds and less bright sky than V1 + warmer WB (using low opacity blur average invert layer in color mode on top of all the previous layers to neutralize slight blue color cast)

3252 15 NPN stronger cloud sky & warmer
3252 15 NPN stronger cloud sky & warmer2000×1334 1.52 MB

REWORKED V1- a little more detail and contrast in the clouds and less bright sky

3252 V2 NPN
3252 V2 NPN2000×1334 1.58 MB

ORIGINAL

3252 15 NPN 2000.jpg
3252 15 NPN 2000.jpg2000×1334 1.61 MB

Critique Style Requested: Initial Reaction

Please share your immediate response to the image before reading the photographer’s intent (obscured text below) or other comments. The photographer seeks a genuinely unbiased first impression.

Questions to guide your feedback

Hi guys, I haven’t been here for some time and it’s really nice to see the changes. I think they’re really helpful, and look forward to participating again!

Other Information

Please leave your feedback before viewing the blurred information below, once you have replied, click to reveal the text and see if your assessment aligns with the photographer. Remember, this if for their benefit to learn what your unbiased reaction is.

Image Description

Image taken in the water.

Conditions were unsettled with up to 28kts wind gusts and some thunder and lightning in the distance, but luckily the possible storm decided to move elsewhere. So shooting was kind of high adrenalin. A one-off, lucky, all ends well story with only a few benign scratches and scraped toe nail from the sharp rocks on the shore!

Technical Details

Ultra wide angle, Sony A7R4

Quite a lot of post-processing work, including cleaning up, reconstructing and sharpening to bring out the best of the original image.

Specific Feedback

Any feedback is welcome: aesthetic, conceptual, emotional (is the image frightening?), technical (focus and sky/cloud exposure. Sadly, my lens does not take filters. Does anyone one of a sensor-clip on graduated ND filter? As far as I can see, these don’t seem to exist.)

2

Laura, that’s quite a “mountain” of water, with that peak right in the center of the photo. There’s a nicely angled visual balance between the cloud, the peak and the blue reflections. The details in the rippled water are a good addition. I do wonder about a similar view with the wave’s peak not so centered and possibly less sky, but recognize that when you’re shooting moving water, all you can do is trip the shutter and see what you’ve got (i.e. lots of shots looking for the best comp.) The dark blue reflections show that you’re going for lots of drama and they do provide that, at the cost of not looking real. That choice is what artistry and understanding what you’re trying to achieve is all about.

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3

Hi Laura,
that’s a really nice shot of the wave. I like that the shape of the wave looks like a mountain peak.
Your chosen shutter speed has frozen the movement of the wave nicely.

I wonder how deep the water was in which you were standing with your camera.

Sadly, my lens does not take filters.

Which lens do you use? There should be filter systems for almost all lenses. My buddy also has a system for domed glasses.

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@Mark_Seaver Hi Mark, many thanks for your excellent feedback. I have a series of these shots showing the waves more from the side and a sliver of sky but I must admit that, in this case, I’m pretty happy with the centered comp. And you are absolutely right, I went for the drama of these blue streaks which were exactly what I had been looking for all season. It was not an easy artistic decision. It took me some three months to decide after letting the image rest, and I’m still not sure - but is one ever sure? I’ve had to learn in the past months that living with uncertainty is an essential skill… by far, one the hardest to master for me :sweat_smile:

@Jens_Ober Many thanks for your appreciation, Jens.

The water where the picture is taken is about 10m deep.

The lens is a 14mm Samyang. Thanks for the tip about domed lenses. I’ll look into it!

5

The lens is a 14mm Samyang.

I think there exists a filter holder from Haida.
It’s the 150mm System. I’m afraid it’s quite pricey and the filter are big.

Screenshot_20230514_210101_Chrome
Screenshot_20230514_210101_Chrome1080×837 54.1 KB

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Oh, many thanks for the info, really appreciate it. Unfortunately, there is no way that this setup will fit in the underwater housing. Pity! :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

7

Okay, sorry. I somehow missed that you were using an underwater housing

8

Laura,

Initial reaction? Wow! Not one of fear though - since I wasn’t there… but one of amazement. That peak and wave top to the right look/feel like they’re inches from you - or me, the viewer, like I could reach out and touch the wave. There’s a 3D look to this as well.

I love the colors in the water; the various tones and contrast as well. Then there’s the sky, which I think is quite complimentary - or at least fitting. I see the cloud as “inverted” - or said another way, counter to the peak of the wave. While they don’t line up directly, I think they play off each other in a postive way.

I’m not sure what you could do to improve this. If I was to suggest anything to work on, it would be the sky and cloud? More contrast? 1/2 darker? more blue less cyan? I mean the blue in the sky looks spot on - like what I would see if I were there. Not sure where I’m going with this, but maybe experiment with different hues and contrast.

But for sure, this is quite amazing as presented. And welcome back! Hope to see more from you.

Lon

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@Jens_Ober No worries :slight_smile: Beautiful work on your website. Congrats!

@Lon_Overacker Hi Lon, Thanks so much for your detailed reaction and thoughts. I really appreciate it. I’m particularly pleased that you feel it has a 3D look. It is definitely what I wished to achieve.

The sky looks a little flat, indeed, but making the sky and/or cloud a little darker is tricky. First of all because I can’t use a graduated filter with my lens and the highlights are close to being blown out (luckily they are not, I count my lucky stars!) and then because it may result in the foreground looking quite unrealistic as not matching the light source (which it already does to some extent but, for me, acceptable). I have tried to avoid making the sky cyan, so it’s a relief to know that the blue looks spot on - which it does to me, too (but I’m aware that my screen can’t be properly calibrated, so it’s good to have some reassurance,thank you).

These are very valid observations on your part and certainly things to think about, though I can’t undertake to experiment soon because this is version 15 and I’m utterly exhausted! Processing is a very subtle art that requires many years of experience and, above all, getting things done even if that means going down the wrong path because it’s the only way to learn. It’s very tough, indeed!

10

Welcome back, Laura! I saw the thumbnail and thought right away it must be your image. All said above so I’ll just add a Fantastic!! You have an amazing viewpoint to shoot from! The blues are just right, as is everything else, but I do think the sky might have the potential for some adjustments.

I was maybe reading too quickly and don’t remember your processing platform*, but as to adjusting the sky, it’s possible these days to easily select the sky + clouds for adjustment, or just to add a grad ND to darken to top area and let it fade before reaching the wave, or mask out the wave, using layer adjustments in PS. Much more control that way than trying to use a grad ND in the field, especially with the dynamic range cameras have these days when shooting raw. I haven’t used one in years, but do various kinds of graduated adjustment layers on almost every image. And I love/hate that they are endlessly editable.

*You say your screen can’t be properly calibrated – are you processing on an iPad or the like? With a limited version of software? That could limit masking adjustments on layers.

Whatever you are doing, your work is very special and appealing!

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11

Thank you very much, I appreciate it. But I can return the compliment to you. Very impressive work.
I wonder how you capture your images, especially the Night Dive… wow!!!

In my opinion, there is no big difference between mounting a GND filter to your camera and applying it digitally in post-processing. In both approaches, unnatural effects can occur if overdone.
Recently, I don’t even put my GND in my backpack anymore because I don’t use it. The dynamic range of modern cameras is so huge that I don’t miss the filter.

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@Diane_Miller Thank you so much for your kind words and advice, which both come as much needed encouragement. I have, indeed, come very close to giving up so impossibly stuck have I been in post-processing in the last year (or two, hard to count anymore). A real nightmare!

Although loath to jump back into the file, as mentioned to @Lon_Overacker earlier, I realised from both your comments that I needed to see what could be done to bring more dimension to the cloud and sky. I tweaked the bottom layer ACR smart object by reducing the exposure to the sky and cloud and adding some dehaze to the clouds, and was successful in bringing out details in the clouds (hurray!) and it was immediately apparent that this closed the image nicely and that the previous sky was just too luminous (quick job today, subject to review but at least the direction is clear).

The frustrating thing is that I had become blind to the flatness of the sky because I had specifically aimed at not making the sky too cyan, too dark and/or too saturated (which had been some of my early processing mistakes, particularly the classic pushing the vibrance of the blues too much) whilst also flattening oversaturation around the edges of the large cloud. So wishing to avoid one outcome, I created another less than optimal one and developed tunnel vision.

Arghh!! There are a million ways to get lost in this infinite maze, yet all one can do is to push ahead in the knowledge that somehow the eye and skills will develop. I don’t know if I’m particularly afflicted ( :exploding_head: :sweat_smile:) but I will admit that post-processing has been absolute torture and still promises to remain so for a while still, although now within the limits of the bearable.

So a HUGE thank you guys for casting an eye over my image and taking the time and energy to let me have your thoughts.

I imagine that such mutual exchange happens in art schools but when we’re all scattered all over the world and alone behind our computers, unless one is exceptionally gifted, I don’t think it’s possible to develop one’s work alone, hence the need for a place like NPN. I can only hope that I can also be helpful to some of you some of the time with my limited, but hopefully growing, eye and skills.

Re: my screen, I’m using an all-in-one HP Pavilion desktop designed for home/office use. I have got a monitor calibrator and managed to calibrate it to 6500K, gamma 2.2, 120 candela/m² but the colours of my prints NEVER match those on my screen, not even close, especially the blues which come out more green/cyan!

@Jens_Ober Many thanks, Jens, much appreciated! Re: night dive, these are pictures taken in the day and the night effect is achieved in post-processing. I wish a sensor existed to capture such scenes at night. There’s no using a tripod in the water!

Re: filters, thanks so much for the info. It’s great to know. However, if the sun shines through the clouds I do get blown highlights so I thought it would be nice to have a graduated ND filter to try, as underexposing the water will result in noise which I hate. Of course, the blown highlights can be retouched out, but I see this as a last resort.

13

Oops forgot to post rework!

14

Yes, the sky is now much more a reflection of the lovely water! Eye-catchingly reflected/inverted (as @Lon_Overacker said) and also flipped horizontally – very nice! Your water always has the most lovely surface feel – I don’t know how to describe it.

Anyone serious about art will struggle with it in all its various phases – capture, processing and presentation. Try not to feel too discouraged, or at least know you have company. This is such a great place to reach out and sometimes find solutions. We hope you’ll find it valuable and keep at it!

15

My first reaction was, “whoa, that’s awesome!” Really lovely work here!

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@Diane_Miller I’m so glad I heeded yours and @Lon_Overacker’s advice. Thank you both! I might even push the sky and cloud a little further if I can. Spot on observation about the inversion/ horizontal flipping from you both, too. That was pure luck!

The various aspects of art making can be brutally hard. I don’t mind admitting how tough it’s been for me. I hope it helps other people feel that they are not alone. For me, I had to read Art & Fear by Ted Orland and David Bayles, to understand that it’s quite normal to struggle. If we can’t find understanding and support between artists, then we certainly will not find it in the outside world who couldn’t care less whether we do or we don’t, and even less about how the art gets made!

@Matt_Payne Many thanks Matt, I’m chuffed by your comment! :smiley:

17

Laura, If anything you should be relieved to know that you’re NOT the ONLY one that’s gone thru this or still going through it! I don’t know your photo history or journey, but I go way back to film days when you “got what you got” and you had to get it right in the field if you wanted any chance of a decent print.

For me, maybe it’s been the slow, drawn out process of learning from early on, learning a little at a time… that over time it’s hasn’t been overwhelming… today? Anyone just starting out in photography say in the last 10 years, had to jump in with both feet and were/are inundated with software, technicques as well as ethical decisions (cloning, transforming, blending… etc. etc.) and you are 100% correct, there are now a “million ways” (ok, maybe just thousands…) to get lost; we can get down processing rabbit holes, etc. etc. Totally get it.

Sure sounds to me like you’re pretty well grounded in the techniques, so I think all I could say is take a step back and just keep it simple; employ techniques, like you did here, to make tweaks and small adjustments.

In the end, you should be quite confident in your abilities and creative vision. You also have a unique place in that I don’t know how many photogs that are out there producing and creating what you’re doing. So keep on keepin’ on.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and photography!

Lon

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You are very welcome - it’s a very evocative image!

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@Lon_Overacker Hi Lon, it’s very interesting to hear from someone who’s witnessed the immense changes that have taken place in the art form over the last few decades. Getting it right in the field presented its own challenges, to be sure, but like most things past, it must have been a slower process. Frankly this acceleration of everything, whilst immensely exciting in some respects, is the stuff of the devil! :imp:

The last 4 years in my case, and I can totally relate to this statement. I was ready for a tough time, but my expectations were vastly exceeded!

Nasty rabbit holes, and this before even trying to translate images from backlit screens to prints!

I’m still shaky, but can just about “keep on keepin’ on”. Thank you for your advice and encouragement. I appreciate it very much.

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My initial reaction is one of awe and wonder at how the water is reaching the sky. Due to the lack of depth perception the sea seems to reach the clouds. It does that for me at least.

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