Painted Hills - the dark side (2 versions)

Here are 2 versions of the Painted Hills, Oregon, both taken around sunset with a telephoto lens. The first one at 135mm, the second at 330mm. I first have developed them regularly, but was not satisfied. I then developed a quite dark version which I like very much. What do you think? Is it too dark? Any other comments?

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I prefer the second, darker photo. In the first photo, the dark areas stick out more and detract from the overall effect. I think the second is also a more interesting composition, more intimate and evocative.

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@Katharina_Hilgers there is some sweet light in both of these images for sure.

I agree with @Tony_Siciliano, I prefer the composition of the second, more intimate image. It is simpler, and more clear about what the photographer wants the viewer to be looking at. The first image is still pretty decent in it’s own right, but I’m usually a fan of “less is more”. I actually like seeing more of the lighter yellow colors in the first image, especially in the foreground formation, but the increased complexity of the composition makes it harder for my eye to rest on one or two key elements.

Regarding darker vs. lighter, the second image seems to have less contrast, and the black point is deeper on the first image. The reds in the second image seem darker and more saturated.

This is where the word “seems” darker comes into play. I am looking at your image on an Adobe RGB desktop monitor using Firefox. I have configured Firefox to correctly display Srgb images when they have an attached color profile. On my Adobe RGB monitor, your images here at NPN look supersaturated with almost garish colors. This is what happens when I view images without a profile in my Adobe RGB color space monitor. Your images do not have an embedded color profile, but when I download them into Photoshop, and assign an Srgb color profile to them, they look great, colors and saturation. A number of photographers (especially those who print), use Adobe RGB monitors. So a good practice to follow is to assign and embed an Srgb color profile to your Jpeg images when you export them for upload to the web. That way folks like me can see the colors the way you intended them to be seen. I assume if someone has an Srgb monitor (most common kind), the colors look fine to them.

Hello Katharina. I hope to see more of your work, in NPN. Painted Hills is a favorite place of mine. If you are there again, ask the Ranger to show you access to the back side and to the hill on the East side. I hope that access is still available.
Like @Ed_McGuirk I enjoy seeing the yellow play with the red in the first image. I think that many alternative compositions of the first image are available. I cropped and tilted the first image to find another composition. This seems to have the advantage of a more concentrated viewing experience favored by @Tony_Siciliano , while retaining the dual colors. The result is a bit abstract, as some terrain context is lost, but the Painted Hills are an abstractionist’s playpen I believe.

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@Ed_McGuirk:
Thank you Ed for pointing out to me the issue about sRGB vs AdobeRGB.
There is obviously a bug in my raw processor software, because no matter what I select for export (options sRGB, AdobeRGB, and original are available), the resulting jpeg has set AdobeRGB as colorspace, and this is obviously wrong. I will file a bug with DxO, but for the time being there is nothing I can do (at least I have no idea…)

My whole workflow is sRGB, this is set in the camera. I follow an advice from somebody who said “If you don’t know WHY you should use something different than sRGB, then don’t use something different” :smile: This has been good advice so far. When I export, I always used “original” and thought this is ok as it would lead to sRGB output. In fact it is sRGB obviously, but flagged as AdobeRGB.
Thanks again for pointing this out.

Maybe there is an idea: I have the option to exclude EXIF data during export. If I check this, there is no colorspace information any more in the file, and this should be better than incorrect information, right? If there is no colorspace information, the web browsers should assume it is sRGB, correct? Below is a version exported with no EXIF data. Does this look correct on your monitor?

Okay, color management can be a nasty topic to explain. But essentially there are two similar yet different things that we need to be concerned about. What “Color Space” do we capture and process images in, and then what “Color Profile” (if any) is embedded in the Jpeg files we post to the web.

In general the Color Space determines how many colors are captured and displayed. Most people use a wide Color Space (more colors) to capture and process. Examples of wider spaces are Adobe RGB, and Prophoto RGB (used by Lightroom). Assuming one is shooting raw files, the images are captured and processed in these wider spaces, and show more colors. When you want to post an image to the web, the Raw or Tiff file gets converted to a Jpeg, and for web display it needs to be converted to the narrower sRGB color space (less colors), because that’s what the web requires.

Now it gets more complicated. Even though the file you uploaded may be in the sRGB color space, if a Color Profile is not embedded in the Jpeg, not all web browsers or monitors may see the colors and saturation the way you do on your monitor. In my case, Firefox can improperly display colors for images without an embedded profile (especially because I use a an Adobe RGB monitor). Other browsers may have problems with this issue too.

In general, most people set their camera to capture raw images in as wide a Color Space as possible. I shoot Canon and my choices are Adobe RGB or sRGB, so I set my camera to use Adobe RGB. Then I process images in Adobe Lightroom Classic and Photoshop, both of which I set the preferences to use Prophoto RGB (actually wider than what I capture, but thats okay). When I want to use a Raw or TIFF file for web display, I generally export it from Lightroom. In the LR export dialog, I choose to convert it to the narrower sRGB color space required for web display. LR automatically embeds an sRGB color profile in the Jpeg file. This means most web browsers will know how to display the colors properly.

The advice you received earlier generally works, except when someone views an image without an embedded profile in certain web browsers. My advice to you (assuming you shoot raw, which you should be doing anyways) would be to change the camera settings to capture images in Adobe RGB, this gives you more colors and tones to work with in processing.

I am not familiar with DXO, but this is likely not a bug in the software. There must be some preference setting within it that you need to check to allow you to embed the sRGB profile in the exported Jpeg. Even though your images are in the sRGB Color Space, not embedding any profile can still create problems in some browsers. Maybe someone with more knowledge of DXO can chime in here.
If you used Lightroom, I know for sure it automatically embeds profile when you you use the export dialog.

Hope this helps, but it is a confusing topic.